Jul 22, 2014





What the Red Grid Marks ARE NOT

Compiled here for comparison is a list and skin analysis of marks similar but not of the same form, symptoms, and appearance of genuine Red Grid Marks. I specifically sought images that look closest to what we find as possible. Click any image to enlarge.

Waffle Iron Burn - Despite the shape of the waffle iron, if it were to actually contact the skin full on, the damage it would do would not leave any discernible shape or grid. Below is an example of what actually happens. Why does it not create an even grid? Because our body parts are not flat, they are curved three-dimensional. And the flatter parts of our bodies will never (unless deliberately) contact a waffle iron parallel to its grid. Even if you turn a waffle iron on low and rest a part of your body on it, the resulting marks would be in horizontal and vertical rows, not diagonal like the RGMP produces.

Healing burn from a waffle iron.



Rub Burn - I found the most symmetrical rub burns you can get, and guess how these are won? Roller derby. These are burns that run through fishnet stockings from falling and skidding on a flat surface. The burns in the first image, while diagonal, and in the same decreasing intensity of redness, with a concentrated area (where the skin received the most impact compared to surrounding surface area), the marks are too large relative to their distance apart. The ratio is off. Now, if I had received this first photo from someone claiming it to be a new case, I would not know right away that it was not a genuine RGM. In fact, I may never be able to tell, which is disturbing to me. It only proves how variability in a phenomenon yields uncertainties like this image creates.

 Roller derby fall skid burn through fishnet stockings. Image 1.

The second image, however, shows how important a closer examination of skin is required to truly verify the legitimacy of a mark. In the RGMP, the marks are subdermal. This burn has small brownish blisters on the top layer of skin. The redness is similar to what we would find in the RGMP, but its lack of distinguishable dots/marks to form the pattern makes it clearly not the same type of mark.

Roller derby skid burns through porous fabric. Image 2.

Rub burns, however, are the closest comparison to genuine grid marks I've seen. 

Allergy Testing - When experiencers describe their marks as being like allergy testing, they are not saying they had allergy testing done at a clinic, they are expressing their theory that the marks were the result of an unknown source performing a kind of stream-lined methodical testing like allergy tests do. Doctor performed allergy tests will be marks in spaced out rows, and reactions produced by certain allergens being tested for will create a raised, inflamed bump, and surrounding redness that spreads out unevenly from the contact point. They are not even in comparative size to one another. RGMs are not allergy testing by human doctors.

 Clinical allergy testing on back of patient.

Bug Bites -  To put it simply, bugs do not bite in symmetrical patterns, as evidenced in the photo, and any others you might find. But, for arguements sake, lets say a person happened to funnel bites into a pre-designed pattern with clothing, for instance. The biggest dissimilarity between bug bites and RGMs is the obvious contact points where the bug bit or injected, and the raised bumps at the site. RGMs do not result in raised bumps. This is the number one thing I check for in verifying a mark's legitimacy. Bug bites tend to heal with scabs where the bumps once were. The inflamed skin is a reaction to irritation, scratching, venom, and blood draw. My case studies report no irritation at the site. They would not have even noticed the marks were there if not for someone else's observation, or seeing them while naked in the shower.

Bed bug bites, notorious for biting in rows

Needle-like Pokes - This is a picture of my thigh from deciding to adopt a wild little kitten into our home. I discovered all its claw pokes left a mark similar in size-distance ratio as my old grid marks, so I took a picture for comparison. Notice the deep redness of the marks. These are dried blood sites. You can barely notice it, but some of the bumps are raised. The look of blood above or at equal level to the top layer of skin would be enough to raise my suspicious if this photo was sent to me as a potential case study. The fact that some of the dots cast shadows, suggesting raised skin, would send my suspicion into doubt. These are like needle pricks.

Cat claw pokes in a nearly symmetrical design.

Acupuncture uses very fine needle points that don't usually leave a noticeable mark after the little bit of blood upon the needle removal is wiped away. There would not be any redness in the skin unless there was an allergic reaction to something in needle, as you see in allergy testing (see above). The only visible markings would be the dried blood, or scab. Bumps rose on some of the cat claw pokes because the claw was caught in the skin for a brief moment and had to be pulled out. Acupuncture needles are put in very precisely so as not to disturb the skin around the contact point. An acupuncturist is not sticking the needle in and moving it around underneath the skin like a blood-draw nurse might do to hit a vein. It's a clean stick.

Chinese Suction Cup/Jar Therapy - Unless very tiny jars are being used and their placement on the skin measured to be in line with a near-precise grid, the RGMP is not a therapeutic technique using jars or cups as practiced in alternative medicine.

Swimmer with large bruising from suction therapy. 

Note the considerable difference in circumference between each circle, and the misalignment down the spine and along the side. True RGMs show significant proportion and accuracy in the grid lines, not represented here.

Patient receiving Chinese Suction Therapy using a series of glass jars in diminishing sizes down the back. 

The ancient technique is still practiced in alternative medicine for chronic pain, to promote healing, and flexibility in the back muscles. By stretching and holding the skin and tissue, the practitioners goal is to try and correct repetitive strain and tension. The result of this procedure is large suction marks that may take weeks to fully disappear.

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There you have it. Six similar types of marks which do NOT belong to the red grid mark phenomenon. If you have any other potential causes you would like me to compare, send me a message with your idea via the contact form in the side bar.

The science is in the details. Thank you for reading!


(Originally published on 7/22/14, Updated 1/23/15)

13 comments :

  1. Is there a way I can contact you? I think i might have these red grid marks and can send you pictures.

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    1. Hi Katheryn, please get in touch with me at thepdw@gmail.com We'd love to talk to you about this.

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    2. Is this still an active thread? Wondering if I can contact you Jordon. Similar experience with the red grid marks and dream walking.

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    3. Clever, our team is no longer investigating new cases. Please read the Statistical Analyses (starting on page 185) and Theories and Conclusions (pg 210) of our recently released Dossier compilation on the RGMP. The link can be found on the right hand column of this site. Your experience will be discussed in those sections.

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  2. Hi There from South Africa. I noticed a small (2 cm) diamond shape pattern made up of regularly spaced red dots on the underside of my wife's wrist. She was unaware of them and there was no pain or discomfort involved. They faded after a few days leaving a diamond shaped bruise which also faded completely after a week or so. I have photo's of the marks but there was no exposure to anything possessing that pattern that we know of and they seemed to appear overnight. Individually the red dots could have been diamond shaped as well but it was hard to be sure. The spacing of the dots was smaller than the grid of Lego and was arranged in an off-set rather than a square pattern. To my mind they resembled suction bruises rather than impact bruises. Any ideas?

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    1. Glynn, Overnight appearances of the marks are very typical. And describing them as suction bruises is also exactly in line with what we understand the marks to be. I recommend you read our dossier compilation of the RGMP, linked in the right hand column of this page. You may be particularly interested in our photo collections where the shapes are discussed.

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  3. Oddly enough my son has markings in middle of back ... anyone know what this is yet ?

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    1. Hi Matthew,

      Seeing them appear on your son must have been disconcerting. I hope I can calm your fears by saying we believe this phenomenon to have a natural cause. If you are able, I recommend reading our dossier compilation on the red grid mark phenomenon accessible via the right hand column of this page.  

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  4. my fiancé and I just found these markings on both of our left and right shoulder blades in the exact same space. we have no symptoms of itching burning or allergies, no pain etc. One thing I want to note is on the page where you describe the very first encounter with the man who smelt sulfu One thing I want to note is on the page where you describe the very first encounter with the man who smelled sulfur. we were on a back country camping chip at glacier national Park this weekend,and we stopped at some hot springs on our way home that had mineral deposits with high amounts of sulfur. if anyone wants to contact me further i can be reached at ashley.e.hubeny@gmail.com

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  5. my fiancé and I just found these markings on both of our left and right shoulder blades in the exact same space. we have no symptoms of itching burning or allergies, no pain etc. One thing I want to note is on the page where you describe the very first encounter with the man who smelt sulfu One thing I want to note is on the page where you describe the very first encounter with the man who smelled sulfur. we were on a back country camping chip at glacier national Park this weekend,and we stopped at some hot springs on our way home that had mineral deposits with high amounts of sulfur. if anyone wants to contact me further i can be reached at ashley.e.hubeny@gmail.com

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  6. I have five spots on the left side of my face. This is the second time in the last 3 months. It's kinda spooky can anyone she'd light on this for me? No symptoms of anything other than my face burning. Ericashanell31@gmail.com..I took pictures

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  7. I have five spots on the left side of my face. This is the second time in the last 3 months. It's kinda spooky can anyone she'd light on this for me? No symptoms of anything other than my face burning. Ericashanell31@gmail.com..I took pictures

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  8. I have had these marks appear today and I have nothing at my house or work that can cause this? Check my doctor and he dose not no or ever seen them? I can be reach at angarcia1988@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete